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Community Mob grinder (planning)

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Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  jswizzy84 on Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:23 pm

Okay we need to think about what type of grinder we should make. I want to make the new style grinders that don't have spawning pads they seem to be the most effective. here is a save file with the grinder in it. http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=225793&start=210#p3554735

[ Specification ]
External dimensions : W16xD16xH64or94 (exclude collection area)
Maximum rate (10F) : All 8,700/hr, String 1,600/hr
Maximum rate (20F) : All 11,200/hr, String 2,000/hr

[ Features ]
* Super light load, very small size and practical performance.
* Non-stuck. You don't need to add any modules.
* Required a lot of woods.
* If you build in accordance with chunks borders, the load will be reduced more.



here are the plans http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=225793&start=240#p3556064

The creator is going to post up a SMP version this weekend.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  painless187 on Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:52 pm

That looks really cool.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  opedog on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:00 pm

jswizzy84 wrote:* If you build in accordance with chunks borders, the load will be reduced more.

omg what a good idea.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  Praitaq on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:04 pm

opedog wrote:
jswizzy84 wrote:* If you build in accordance with chunks borders, the load will be reduced more.

omg what a good idea.

How would you go about finding the chunk borders in smp?
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  jswizzy84 on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:06 pm

painless187 wrote:That looks really cool.

This is his other grinder
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  bob2351723 on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:10 pm

I'm not sure I'd want a giant creeper inside of a themed spawn city. Just my $.02
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  Praitaq on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:15 pm

bob2351723 wrote:I'm not sure I'd want a giant creeper inside of a themed spawn city. Just my $.02

I think that given some of the new "anti-cube" rules we would bury it, and cover the top with some theme building.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  opedog on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:29 pm

Praitaq wrote:
opedog wrote:
jswizzy84 wrote:* If you build in accordance with chunks borders, the load will be reduced more.

omg what a good idea.

How would you go about finding the chunk borders in smp?

no idea!
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  jswizzy84 on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:30 pm

we could try and disguise it as a statue or bury it.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  SpiralShot on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:32 pm

can we just theme it as some evil temple of sacrifice to the great green blood god? I think it would be nice to have a dramatic entrance for the grinder.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  jswizzy84 on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:36 pm

SpiralShot wrote:can we just theme it as some evil temple of sacrifice to the great green blood god? I think it would be nice to have a dramatic entrance for the grinder.

Green with sand/sandstone would make it look really nice. We could do a Minoan style open air temple with some brazers.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  opedog on Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:42 pm

jswizzy84 wrote:we could try and disguise it as a statue or bury it.

i vote bury Smile
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  jswizzy84 on Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:02 pm

Just a note but i was playing around on the 20 floor version and it almost crashed my computer because of GPU lag from all the items when I forgot to collect them.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  opedog on Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:22 pm

jswizzy84 wrote:Just a note but i was playing around on the 20 floor version and it almost crashed my computer because of GPU lag from all the items when I forgot to collect them.

Good lord. So we'll be able to scale that way down right? Very Happy
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One thought

Post  billlava on Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:25 am

I'd vote for the grinder to be away from spawn... not too far away, maybe just 700 blocks or so. I think that if it is that huge, it might cause lagging issues if nobody is there, but drops are still collecting. Plus, it is likely to throw off the balance of all mobs in the area, not just hostiles, and I neeeeeed cows to make cake. Wink
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  painless187 on Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:13 pm

SpiralShot wrote:can we just theme it as some evil temple of sacrifice to the great green blood god? I think it would be nice to have a dramatic entrance for the grinder.
Hey there Spiral~! I mustr agree. Since this is Atlantis it should look like a temple of some sort... maybe with some lava falls or something.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  eraticus on Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:20 pm

Thinking conservatively about lag issues here but, aside from grinders being sorta cool would we maybe be better served by just setting up some trade signs for the common stuff? Like a stack of arrows for a half stack of cooked stone or something?

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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  GoldenShadowGS on Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:54 pm

I'm diggin a hole for this mob grinder to be built in. I don't know the specs of this specific plan. But I can make the pit 16*16 wide and down to bedrock if needed. Also, I already have a lot of cobble to use for the construction. It is set aside nearby

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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  opedog on Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:22 pm

GoldenShadowGS wrote:I'm diggin a hole for this mob grinder to be built in. I don't know the specs of this specific plan. But I can make the pit 16*16 wide and down to bedrock if needed. Also, I already have a lot of cobble to use for the construction. It is set aside nearby

Let's still hold off a bit Golden. We can discuss it tonight. I want to make sure it conforms to a chunk boundary and I think I know of a way to do it.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  opedog on Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:58 pm

Golden, Sarah mentioned you said it was a flawed design, but JSwizzy tested it on SSP and it works.

What about it is flawed?
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  GoldenShadowGS on Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:04 pm

This design is flawed. Theres no enough surface area for anything to spawn. The Theory is when those tiny strips of cobble are the onyl spawn points on the entire map, then they will be used. But from what I understand about how spawning works in SMP, it requires you to block spawns in a huge radius around every player. Not just the grinder's location. A working map will never have anywhere close to the suggested output that a controlled laboratory map will(entire map made of halfsteps). I don't think this design will ever produce any substantial amount of drops in a real game map.

There seems to be a misconception that a grinder causes lag. Depends on how you want to define lag.
The correct defintion is, in my own words "a delay between the client and server caused by network congestion causing data to be sent again". Some symptoms of lag in minecraft are delays opening chests and blocks reappearing after you break them. This network congestion can come when a lot of players have logged on and exceed the bandwidth of the server.

The other, incorrect definition of lag, which is used by people with low-end PCs. Such as when they get low frame rate performance, stuttering, sound pops and crackles, sluggish or non responsive input controls. This is a problem with your PC It has nothing to do with lag.

Now the reason I mention this. A Grinder uses game mechanics to function. The server is constantly going to spawn mobs all the time. The server is always doing this everywhere. You don't see if because the vast majority of them are probably outside of your fog rendering distance, especially if you have a small or tiny render. A Grinder is going to concentrate the mobs in one area. Low-end PCs are going to choke when they try to render 50+mobs at once.

My PC is high-end(aside from the GFX card). Corei7 920 @3.4Ghz 12GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 275. I have zero issue with a hundred mobs crawling around. My FPs never dips lower than 100 no matter what I do.

It makes no difference to the server where the mobs are, the server is calculating them no matter what. It only matter to the clients, and if their PC can handle it without choking.

Therefore The rule about no mob grinders should be removed if the grinder's location is far enough out to not affect anyone else nearby.
Also, the plan I have in mind will be completely underground, and I've scouted a location about 600-700 blocks out(within the boundary limit), but way, way out of sight of anyone's current building site.

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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  opedog on Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:17 pm

Good post, and I appreciate your candor. The rule stands to prevent gray cubes and lag, regardless of the definition.

I also appreciate that you've scouted a spot for a grinder elsewhere, outside of visible range, underground, and within the soft boundary we've tried to set on exploration.

However, let's go ahead with this controversial grinder design just to see if it works in the spot you've already dug. If it doesn't work and we're not getting the flow we want, we can shut it down and go with your design offsite.

I really do appreciate all the work you've put into it and I apologize I haven't had more time to help, but this isn't negotiable. I'll make getting with you about this my top priority for the evening.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  tbtregenza on Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:26 pm

@Golden:

Have you tried downloading the SSP map on the linked video to see if it creates performance issues? The creator himself says you must place a lava block every time you leave the collection point otherwise the insane amount of items being dropped will force-close/crash the client.

Whatever the correct definition of "lag", this would be a major problem. Even if it is only for people without high-end rigs, this is a major problem. You can't possibly expect everyone to upgrade their PCs to be able to handle multiple high-yield mob grinders.

Reading through the minecraftforums.net thread on this particular design, I for one am becoming a little reluctant to try it out having now heard about the performance issues people are having.
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  opedog on Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:37 pm

Yeah, after thinking about it some more, a less crashy grinder is the best bet, Golden and TBT. Let's get on vent tonight and hash it out some more.

Even better, with the minecart system and such it'll be easier to get too offsite.

I'm coming around. Wink

Now we gotta figure out what to do in the giant hole that was dug. It looks like a chunk load error. Very Happy
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Re: Community Mob grinder (planning)

Post  tbtregenza on Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:41 pm

Well Ope I suppose there is no harm in trying it...except for the time investment. What about Golden's theory on the spawning rates? I dunno...Anyway, is there no way we could re-use the dug hole for a class-style grinder?

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